Life in a Nutshell
There is no way I'm going to have time to look up everything about NFP in Catholic teaching and write a coherent post about it....... so I'm not going to!
It is so hard for me to put my thoughts down these days, with regard to anything philosophical or theological, you'd think I'd never spent 4 years discussing such things!
And so.... I rounded up my troops and we baked chocolate chip cookies instead.
Yum.
But, just to wrap up the previous post and comments....
I think that it is necessary to use one's intellectual faculties when having a family. To not use what God gave you, yet expect Him to take care of You, is presumptuous....reminds me of the joke about the man stranded on a rooftop, praying for God to rescue him, denying all sorts of help along the way, and dies. He chastises God for not helping him, and God says, "I sent a helicopter, a boat and a raft...what more did you want?"
However, not knowing the hearts and minds of other families, I also think it presumptuous to judge them. "Anon" said that she/he is not judging, or naming a particular ideal # of children per family, then goes about doing just that, by saying that 'once a couple starts to have 10 or so, that seems a bit ridiculous'. That seems a rather harsh judgement to me. Then "Anon II", after repeatedly saying that there is no magic number, kept saying that this certain number he/she suggested is 'obviously' wrong (Example, 16 children in 17 years) hmmmm.....
I agree that the Quiverfull philosophy is not in line with Catholic Church teaching. And that should be the end of the discussion. Naming numbers, going through 'how many hours in a day' versus 'how many kids' and 'you do the math' is passing judgement on actual numbers of children, and what is acceptable and what is not. The Church doesn't do that, neither should we.
There is a whole other aspect of the quiverfull philosophy that I read about in their "testimony" section that horrified me, and that is about a mom who had VBAC's after 3 sections, and another VBAC after a uterine rupture! Her 11 year-old daughter attended this highly risky birth, and the Mom did all of this because "She wanted to have that (VBAC) experience again" (!!!!!!) Thank God her daughter didn't have to have the experience of watching her mother die while giving birth! I don't have to say what I think about this, I think it speaks for itself......
Did I say chocolate chip cookies??
3 comments:
Sorry, nutmeg, but you have misunderstood me. I have specifically avoided passing any judgement on the Duggar family. In my comments, I gave them the benefit of the doubt as to how they have planned their family, saying that I allowed that they have discerned this as God's will for them. I stated specifically that my personal opinion, and my opinion only, about the Duggar family was that I was simply baffled at how they did it with so many kids, and that it didn't seem prudent to me personally, while acknowledging that my standards are much different that theirs appear to be regarding child-raising. It's just my opinion about them, which I'm entitled to; an opinion is not a judgement. It truly does baffle me how they manage every day, but that doesn't mean I've judged them to be doing something wrong, at least not necessarily. (i.e they may be wrong about their quiverfull beliefs, but the fact that because of that, they have a large family, is not wrong.)
I did make a judgement about families who adhere to Quiverful and/or do not use the gift of prudence regarding family planning, because it is against Church teaching. It's permissible to make a judgement on something that is in error. We make that judgement about contraception and it's users all the time and aren't called judgemental. I cannot find where I said that 16 kids was 'obviously' wrong, so I ask you to point me to it.
I'm not judging their family, or the fact that they have so many kids...more power to them if that's what they think it's best. It's not my "cup of tea" as Amy Wellborn said on her blog, and wouldn't be God's will for my family, but so what? I feel I can judge the fact that their family practices are based on erroneous teachings, however. Hate the sin, love the sinner, and all that jazz, you know? Just because there is someone's family involved, with beautiful, lovable children, doesn't mean that we can't call things as they are...the quiverfull philosophy is wrong, they embrace it, so they can be called in error. Allowing, of course, for the possibility that their family size was discerned by them to be God's will for them. But the jist of their site is that they did not proceed that way. I'm not criticizing the number,or the children themselve, but the way in which they arrived at it.Children are always a gift and a good, because they are created by God...whether the parents are having 1 a year or have contracepted their family to 2.
Again, just my opinion. But I wanted to clarify.
Thanks for the clarification.
Judgement is a hard topic to talk about. Yes, we can judge that something is wrong without making specific judgements on a particular circumstance, but when that circumstance is based on a particular wrong, as in the case of the Duggar family's adherence to the quiverfull philosophy, then one thinks that maybe one should be able to say that they are in error as regards to family size. That's where it gets sticky. And that's where the misunderstanding occurs.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion. (This whole blog is about my almighty opinion! ;) I guess I didn't like the seeming incongruity between trying not to judge, yet passing an opinion on a specific case. It's a fine line, and I'm sorry I misunderstood you.
Finally, I think we agree. The quiverfull philosophy is wrong, and those that adhere to it are in error. ALthough we may get into trouble when we say that we hope that they are listening to God's will for their lives...b/c isn't that what they claim with the whole QF philosophy?
Anyway, I would like to read that account of their day.... I'm just curious. I certainly don't know how in the world I would 16 children! But, who knows.... oh, don't let my DH read that! lol
Fair enough. :) I think you're right...judgment is a trick issue. It IS very hard to say that their family planning philosophy is wrong without it seeming like you're saying that 16 children is wrong, because one comes from the other. And "God's will" is hard too...they think they're following God's will with this quiverfull thing, we think quiverfull is in error...so are they or aren't they following God's will? Can someone follow God's will and still be in error? Difficult, definitely.
Their website is duggarfamily.com, if you wanted to take a look. They are a beautiful family, I must say. Look like they have it all together, more than a lot of Catholic large families I know, at least. :) Difficult topic, to be sure.
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